All good things...
2003-04-15 05:13:58 ET

Damn, this sucks.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, read m0xie's latest entry.


But since I'm used to large-magnitude traumas, I've got to keep positive thinking. So don't post ":-(" faces on the comments page, post alternatives.

This kommunity kicks ass, (and for that I'd like to extend my gratitude to m0xie and sykospark for all the hard work put in it) and I'd hate to lose touch with everyone I got to know here.


So...

Alternatives?


2003-04-15 05:14:28 ET

i dont like livejournal!!!

2003-04-15 05:16:33 ET

Livejournal?
Not much of a community, and the interface just isn't as comfortable. But it might have to do..

IRC?
I could always open a #subkultures on DALnet IRC, like I always suggested, which would be better than everyone adding me to their AIM/ICQ/MSN/Y!M (though pelase do), because it's more a public thing, but still, only people who are awake at the same time could communicate, and it's not webby, so not everyone can use it (at work and such)..

2003-04-15 05:18:29 ET

it just sucks. let's start our own page :(

2003-04-15 05:20:44 ET

Yeah, I pretty much refuse to use livejournal... ugh.

2003-04-15 05:22:43 ET

I just don't understand why sk.net couldn't just become paid accounts only now? i fully 100% realize I do not know how much work, time, and money goes into this, so I'm not at all aware of the severety of the situation, however....I feel like now that the declaration has been made, people would surely get their asses in gear to donate. Hell, I was WAITING for today because it was pay day and I finally got a little savings set aside (I said this on someone elses page too). I was fully on going to donate a nice little chunk. I was waiting to get a real love for this place; I've been on here almost exactly 5 months, which is not that much time! That's some poetic juctice for me, I guess.

2003-04-15 05:23:14 ET

hmm. Noa, maybe m0x would be willing to share the software, and someone could inherit the site..?

2003-04-15 05:23:39 ET

i dont care donating some...

2003-04-15 05:25:58 ET

is it possible to do that? Pass the responcability on to someone else, or at least share it? I bet no one else would run it as well though.

2003-04-15 05:28:08 ET

*lowers head*, I honestly don't think I'm capable of attempting such an undertaking myself, technically, financially and otherwise.

2003-04-15 05:28:55 ET

i don't know...i have the time...just don't the money

2003-04-15 05:30:56 ET

if anyone's got the mad phat PHP skills that m0x possesses, i have some server space - i don't know if it would take all the people SK has now, but maybe we could enact some kind of re-application process, and make it pay-only (very low rate, of course).

2003-04-15 05:31:32 ET

running a site like sk.net takes a whole lot of time and dedication, not to mention technical expertise and a strong financial backing.

Not to pour salt, Noa, but this isn't electroculture.tk.

2003-04-15 05:33:29 ET

hey i didn't say im taking this on myself, but i'll be happy to help in design, and stuff i know how to do.

2003-04-15 05:35:06 ET

there've got to be some good techie sk.netters out there..

2003-04-15 05:35:33 ET

You don't need to be technical to run this site. You have to have a LOT of patience and money.

2003-04-15 05:36:57 ET

money is a problem.
however, i'm lifeless.

2003-04-15 05:39:49 ET

both of which are virtues I lack :/
But I'm sure some good people here might have it,
and maybe a new concept for 'sharing the wealth' would work, both on admining and moneywise.

2003-04-15 06:20:32 ET

i won't go into it much, but it seems that the patience factor is the big one. moderating the posts of 100+ people has to be draining to put it mildly.
as said in my own entry. feel free to ask for my email.

2003-04-15 06:24:00 ET

again, perhaps a new concept for moderating would work better - -instead of having a couple of people moderating everything, maybe a sort of group moderation, maybe in turns, like a duty for the kommunity if you're a non-pay account, or maybe some sort of software indicators (having keywords turn a redlight for the moderator, and only moderate those posts..)
I dunno. There are a lot of possible moderation concepts, that could perhaps lighten the weight.

2003-04-15 06:27:22 ET

good point-i was going on guesswork there as i never moderated anything.

2003-04-15 06:29:16 ET

back to the main issue here..

Any alternatives/solutions to keep this kickass kommunity (somewhat) together?

2003-04-15 06:30:26 ET

I agree with you Shay; just like the evolution of any community, more responsabilities could be delegated out.

2003-04-15 06:30:33 ET

as i said - i have the server space. anyone who wants to take up the more technical end can feel free to do so.

2003-04-15 06:31:51 ET

i wish we had a forum here on sk.net, just a general forum, so these issues could be discussed all at once rather than going from page to page. I know there is one on sykosparks page....but one here for this occationw ould be easier.

2003-04-15 06:33:48 ET

yeah, I'm trying to spread a link to this thread around. Feel free to do so as well, so as many people can see possible alternatives/suggestions and maybe we could work something out.

2003-04-15 06:39:01 ET

Hopefully all the work put into this site will not be in vain.



... maybe the subkultures source code could be put out?

2003-04-15 07:54:27 ET

from other pages:


Kasty 2003-04-15 12:01:32

We could start a community in LJ called "SubKultures" and be elitist and not let anyone in = D!




chiasticslide 2003-04-15 12:07:03

actually, one alternative is pitas.com. free, open-ended (raw HTML edit), do whatever you want with it, although i don't think they have any imagehosting (need to supply your own, i think). other than that, it's not bad, although there's not much of a "community," per se.





appliancesex 2003-04-15 11:51:18
hmm, i'm saddened by this too. no one had a chance to meet me (and i'm all that and a bag of chips). i signed up here thinking i'd donate when he asked. then i found that link on his page. but then again i read that post. i wonder if he made it a pay site how many people would stick around. wouldn't that have lowered the cost of running it?

i know of a site that solved the problem of running it (at least to some degree) with so many people by giving admin priviledges to responsible and active memebers. maybe that would help alleviate the stress of mainting a site with 50+ people.

just a thought..

2003-04-15 08:07:02 ET

TE, I coulda sworn syko started an 'sk' thing on livejournal. Nonetheless, that ain't the same.

some statistics would help. I'll ask m0x if he can tell me how much this thing costs to run, and how much disc space it takes.

I don't think I can run a server from here at work, but I'll ask around to see what sort of options there are. I can also think of an administrator who mods a different website. I wonder if he would be interested.

2003-04-15 08:07:37 ET

I just got done reading all of this and most of it sounds like pretty good Ideas. I've been here a year the day the site closes down. And I've kept coming day after day... i definately do not want to see it shut down.

I don't know about if there was a new site that I would be able to get accepted into it, and that would just not be cool at all. The main problem is my lack of funding. I work a full time job at 6 dollars an hour and i have my own house and bills and food and all that good shit.. Maybe there would be a way for people who cant afford to donate to work for the site, like someone said they could be moderators. I'd love to be a moderator for a site such as this.. And it would ease the shit on someones shoulders to be able to have others under them doing the work for them.

A little too late I guess...

2003-04-15 08:10:52 ET

I have the money and the time to run a site like this but I don't have the major technical knowledge. I have server space out the ass but my PHP knowledge is limited heavily. So for me. Money and time but no experience. :| Since my deployment has been put on the backburner it opens up alot of time and money for me to pursue additional interests.

I know moxie has alot going in his life as do many of us and I am happy he and sykospark undertook this endeavour, regardless. I am all for attempting to save the community in some form and I am willing to commit a large sum of money ($200 - $300) toward that cause if be neccessary.

The only way I could see SK.net coming to profit or even break even would be if all accounts became paid accounts. New members whose applications were accepted, get a 14 day trial period. At the conclusion of that they can pay via Cash, money Order, or Paypal toward the maintence of the site. I believe $15 - $20 bi-yearly (or tri-yearly which si $60 a year) fee is fair if not a bit on the low side. that's the price of a shirt or one or two CDs. Livejournal can't touch SK.net becuase of the features this community has like the radio, chat room , private messaging, and picture galleries. That could be justification for the bi-yearly fee.

Of course the features would have to be upgraded somewhat. The possibility of streaming media and media galleries would be a plus and a better PM interface. Basically that means some of the upgrades moxie has been working on would have to be implemented and tested prior to the institution of paid accounts.

Also the possibilty of integrating the Sykoforum into SK.net as well or even just the merging of the two would greatly enhance the site as well. I would like to see SK.net become a permanent internet presence because honestly, I am not familiar with any sites that have such a diverse member base with people from Hong Kong, Canada, Israel, USA, and many other countries interacting and sharing their lives (in a community atmosphere) with other members who has all decided to leave the mainstream culture and embrace the subcultures of the world. I mean BMEzine focuses heavily on body mods and SK.net focuses alot of subcultures. The difference is the kindness of the mods, comfortable atmosphere and strict admission procedures. So whatever happens I am just happy that I had an oppurtunity to share in the joy that is Subkultures.net.

2003-04-15 08:13:52 ET

15-20 dollars biyearly wouldn't be that bad, i just couldnt pay a set every month fee of like 30 bux ...

2003-04-15 08:16:59 ET

Vasa, you should talk to syko, then. She mentioned somewhere else that this place is about time and money, not technical expertise.

I'm going to bug a guy in LA who has admin experience and see what his time/interest is like. We'd have to pay him, of course.

I am completely in favor of a paid account system. I don't know how non-payers can be proper moderators if they can't have access to the software. What would they do? What would they need to do? No offense, Anti-. :( I just don't know how it would work.

2003-04-15 08:18:11 ET

I totally agree and support a paid account system.

2003-04-15 08:28:48 ET

I have no problems contributing to a pay site!!! :)

2003-04-15 08:37:21 ET

I'm for a "premium" paid-type thing, with limited options for non-pay accounts (image limitations, bandwidth limitations, login-time-per-day or whatever limitations, etc). Fact is that not only are a lot of sk.netters kids, who don't actually have money, but the whole 'global' thing makes it problematic as well. I mean, take me for instance. I don't mind paying, (that's my overdraft that minds) but quite simply 1 $ USD = 5 NIS, Israel has a higher cost of living (one of the highest out there, actually), and I earn less than a lowly McJob in the USA would pay for the same amount of hours.

2003-04-15 08:55:54 ET

I'd be willing to donate at least $100 to get something going. It will be a few paychecks before I can afford to though. I just had a bunch of bills dumped my way. I hope we can all work out something. I wish I could be of more assistance but all I have is loads of patience and some money to offer into the equasion.

2003-04-15 08:57:50 ET

Cool hon, where there's a will there's a way, I just hope someone serious is up to take the initiative and do something about it. Stormzealot started asking around ...

2003-04-15 08:59:02 ET

paid accounts.


to keep the price down, the image galleries (if such a thing were to be implemented) would only have maybe 3 images max, with extra images $1 each.

keep membership small-ish - basically "old school" (and new-school) sk-ers with a limited amount of newcomers. have a team of moderators to help.

i am extremely poor, but would be more than willing to toss in some money to keep the <cheesy>"spirit of SK"</cheesy> alive.

2003-04-15 09:05:44 ET

ok a few things everyone must relize here...

we're talking easily if we used commerial server space even with good connections the bandwidth and server space would run into the 100-200 dollar range i have the server space as does vasa... but i need my pieline open which means to serve sk i'd need like an OC-48 or a t1 installed on that... which aint gonna happen cuz it would be more expensive than a commercial option.... so other options we have.... if VASA has the bandwidth there thats great

we could look into turing the community into a Bulliten board based system
to save on bandwidth issues... which would mean a much more centrlized based system without a personal page (but a fully customizable profile) but we could largely keep it the same as the current model... the one thing that i see being a problem on sk is that its got a massive PHP backend and all the images used... if we cut down on the code and got rid of server based imagery except for like 1 or 2 but allowed external image linking...

then we might be able to pull this off

just some thoughts

i have lots of time
not too much money
but lots of time.
i'm not nearly as good at PHP as moxie is but i can do my share and have many friends who rock at it.

i think paid accounts would be grand but our problem is everyone on here is poor. (well most sooo) we need to change it
sure sk wouldnt be as kick ass but mox and syko were putting LOTS of monetary resources into this

LOTS

anywho...

those are my thoughts

2003-04-15 09:07:25 ET

I'm ready to step up whose with me?
*corny 40's organ music rises*

2003-04-15 09:18:13 ET

http://www.subkultures.net/stormzealot?readjid=859623

2003-04-15 09:25:35 ET

way too wierd of an irony i was thinkin about that myself...

i'm launching a matrix page soon.....

hey ya'll so what do u guys think would u be behind all this?

the BBS is just an idea we could probably make it work as more but i think a format like a bbs with possibly member pages to post and be commented on would work...

2003-04-15 09:26:56 ET

See?!? Where else are we going to find these awesomely nerdtastic conversations that are as much fun?!? SK MUST PREVAIL!

2003-04-15 09:27:56 ET

with an IRC channel for better interaction (sorry I keep pulling this in, but I really think there's potential there never fully taken advantage of because I find the sk.net chatter thingie is lacking)

2003-04-15 09:29:50 ET

I emailed an admin guy to see if he would do some PHPing for $$, and I may know another guy as well. I have some $$, but no time, and no skillz. :P

a scaled pay system might work. with an option for free people being this community board thing and no images. At least they'd be on here.

I like personal pages. they are nice.

2003-04-15 09:35:24 ET

An LJ subkultures community might have to do for now, but I'd certainly support efforts to continue the site some other way. As much of a pain as it would be to get to a bank for a US money order (with my work hours, involves getting up early, ew!) it would be amusing saying to the teller, "Yes, make it out to subkultures dot net...that's with a K..." That or I'll just have to give in to the pressure one of these days and get a credit card.

2003-04-15 09:36:34 ET

someone get up a #subkultures irc channel, ya?

2003-04-15 09:38:30 ET

DALnet has good nickserv and chanserv, so hostile takeovers are nigh-impossible.
I spoke of this awhile ago with syk0 and they weren't for it.. So I didn't open one (I even have another computer which I could dedicate to running a bot on [this puter gets turned off a lot]) But I guess if the site's going down, maybe they won't mind now..

2003-04-15 09:43:08 ET

i think we do need to at least modify the site in some way even if we don't throw out the present stucture

we would need to cut back on personal images, user page customization and cap archived posts for each user

2003-04-15 09:53:42 ET

well maybe if we just gave them a blank page to work with it might be better, maybe later on in the sk2 development

2003-04-15 09:55:01 ET

i wonder how much we'd have to raise for them to keep it. cuz if we can reach that total, i'm sure mox wouldn't return it.

i'm sure if everyone chipped in a few bucks (hell, even i can do that and i'm broke) we could keep this site for a while and if we continually donated, we would be safe. we've got a month to convince mox and syko. might as well give it a shot.

2003-04-15 09:59:24 ET

did u not notice syko deleted herself off the system?

something else is going on...

i think its over for them.

we need to discuss other options

if we can convince them great..

in the mean time we have to launch the new sk at least on paper ... we should also if we are going to change it ... get the current code from mox and adapt it to our needs and begin testing and modding

2003-04-15 10:02:07 ET

i have no problem in paying for, admining, or contributing server space and/or design and code to new or old SK. if anyone gets these things going, please notify me, as i can't really watch this thread anymore cuz i'm lost as it is.

2003-04-15 10:03:50 ET

yep i'm not too down with sk 2 though

this is SK

and will always be SK

no matter what we are still the same community, the same people

the last thing we want happening is a rapture where people part ways or (heaven forbid) strat seperate communities

2003-04-15 10:08:14 ET

Yea, and then we'd be like the new kid in high school; awkward and lame.
KEEP THE IDEAS ROLLIN'! WE ARE A COMMUNITY AND CAN DO IT TOGETHER!!!

2003-04-15 10:09:15 ET

http://www.subkultures.net/Alice?readjid=859432

my two cents... I'll post my emotional response later.

Just looking at my list of friends (new and old) makes me sad.

Put me down for $100 too. As long as we can keep everything going.

It's what I would spend on two video games. I spend more time here and have more fun than I would with any video game.

2003-04-15 10:10:57 ET

ok here's the deal tonite i am launching a BBS for the purpose of reorganizing the current SK

basically a lame sk to discuss the future of the current sk

thats how we'll figure this out

i'll post the link in the morning

2003-04-15 10:12:48 ET

cool. I just openned a #subkultures on DALnet IRC.

irc://dalnet/subkultures for those with mIRC.

2003-04-15 10:17:33 ET

irc is great

i think we need a web based BBS

2003-04-15 10:52:29 ET

i dont want sk to shut down at all...i dont think anyone does. ill try to do anything...im not to good with computers but im sure i can be taught and im not rich but im sure i can try to donate something money wise and i dont have alot of time seeing as im trying to get my musician status to rocket up but i will give what i got to help...

2003-04-15 10:53:54 ET

thank ye

hey yall look for the bbs soon... quite possibly on www.savesk.com

but that is subject to change

2003-04-15 10:56:45 ET

Here's an alternative. Start up a Subkultures Livejournal community. It's still Livejournal, but at least we can have our own little place on there.

2003-04-15 10:57:11 ET

this is true but it wont be the same.

2003-04-15 10:58:22 ET

Yes, it'll never be the same.

Very sad. :-(

2003-04-15 10:59:02 ET

i think one was started already ... not everyone has lj...

and many people hate it

but its a start

2003-04-15 10:59:18 ET

still though we need our own

2003-04-15 10:59:22 ET

lemme know what goes down shay, you know im there. i cant leave you guys.

2003-04-15 10:59:38 ET

i think with the people we have on sk and the knowledge of technology computers creativity we can start something better than lj....like an sk2.. or just keep sk runniing

2003-04-15 11:01:13 ET

everyone email ur contact info to me:

i'm going to start an sk mailing list as well hopefully

if anyone wants to help me with either the mailing list or the BBS

let me know

dan@davisdigital.com

these are for the purposes of keeping sk alive not replacing it

2003-04-15 11:02:40 ET

id love to help

2003-04-15 11:03:45 ET

ok Storm. I have space but not bandwith. I have money and time though. If we can get the financial figures from m0xie on how much he pays for bandwith and hosting and then taking those figures and coming up with something similar.

If there is anyway to save the current format and setup of SK.net that would be best in my opinion. Limit the max images to 5 and at the minimum 1 (an avatar); 1 image for free accounts and 3 or 5 images for paid accounts. Cut file size for images down to 50K and limit the dimensions with that as well. The coding and site as it stands now works. Changing that might lose some of the flavor that makes this place unique.

I believe a scaled paying system is possible and a good idea actually. I know not everyone has alot of money but every bit helps. I have the funds and I will for quite some time. My personal programming experience is limited to Flash, Shockwave, HTML, and XML. Beyond that I am lost.

So let's talk to moxie sometime and see if he can provide us with some info and talk about the future :)

2003-04-15 11:07:26 ET

vasa you are great! i like your thinking

2003-04-15 11:09:25 ET

I have asked m0x for the financial numbers; I hope to hear back from him.

I agree with vasa's suggestions.

2003-04-15 11:10:53 ET

wow....this is amazing .... we will...WILL save sk!!!!

2003-04-15 11:13:09 ET

yes the coding is great we need to axe many parameters though not only images but archived logs of posts (just look at posts like this one they're huge) non paid accounts shouldnt be allowed much user customization etc....

anyone have his actual email?

i cant get a hold of him

and he's done something to almost block his moxie@sk.net account

syko deleted her page

at the least we need the user database the codeitself and the dns permissions for the site

we have to make this work

as i said

i'm launching a BBS to dicuss this ....

we need to organize this discussion better

a BBS is perfect savesk.om is available that would be nice rather then just some wierd url off one of our pages

i have the space not the bandwidth and a decent amount of the know how but i have lots of friend who are coding geniuses that will help us for free

i also have no money but lost of time

so yes, we need to get this mother into gear

2003-04-15 11:13:57 ET

i have heard a few mentions of limiting the members if a new site is created, about what number is being considered, compaired to how many are on here now?

2003-04-15 11:15:38 ET

Ok, here are my thoughts (from my own posting)

Well it's too bad that this place is going away. I've ran online communities before and I understand how draining it can be. Draining emotionaly, time-wise, and financially.

Here is my deal. I'm considering starting a similar site, based on origional code.

I'm in a unique position in that I have almost zero hosting costs. I own and have hosted in a datacenter on a 100 Mbps link a dual proc system running Linux, Apache, PHP, and MySQL. I have a backup dual proc box with slightly slower processors.

But here's the issue. I have some experience and proficiency in PHP/MySQL programming, but probably not quite enough and definately not enough time to pull it off by myself.

So I'm looking for PHP/MySQL developers who want to help.


I really like the BME-style community. I like how it's laid out, and I'd like to see it proliferate. I'm in a unique position to do so. I just need people who are willing to take on some of the programming tasks.

I'm also the author of an O'Reilly networking book.

2003-04-15 11:15:46 ET

i want to be on it...i dont think we should limit just set new rules

2003-04-15 11:18:14 ET

Well most of the people on subkultures.net rarely post and they are just taking up space. I'd figure that everyone from sk.net that has at least posted in the last month should go to the new one; everyone else can reapply maybe.

2003-04-15 11:18:19 ET

count me in for some cash. i dont have alot, but if it keeps the dying horse from falling off the cliff, ill contribute any way i can.

a BBS would be good. but nowhere near the same flavor as SK.

2003-04-15 11:19:36 ET

I'm also willing to donate hardware. I'm not sure what is involved, if SK is being hosted on a bunch of smaller machines or one big Sun machine? I got SCSI drives Iím not doing anything with. And a never tested Raid 5 controller card.

8 years ago I started my internet habit on http://www.gothic-classifieds.com In those 8 years ownership changed at least three times. There was downtime as long as 4 months but ppl came back and things went on.

I'm sure SK can survive.

Hopefully Moxie will be willing to pass over ownership. I love all that our admins have done, but at the same time, I want to see SK go on.

2003-04-15 11:21:18 ET

shade thaz sweeet

more power to u

but i think we want to keep sk how it is

just with some changes man

i too have run online communities yes they can be very stressful but i'm ready and willing to help

if u need ccoding done i can help a lil

but i'm going to bring a friend of mine who is maaaaad awesome at php he'd work on it for us...

but the thing is... we want sk to remain sk

its a coomunity an established one at that

2003-04-15 11:21:31 ET

most all suggestions include paid accounts. which make sense, and everyone seems to be agreeing to. but how many times did syko and mox ask for donations and very few people helped out. i did, with quite a signifigant sum, and not to blame syko or moxi at all, but now i have been left out in the dark beccause other people didnt contribute. it worries me that something like that might happen again.

2003-04-15 11:22:05 ET

For Vasa and anyone else planning on resurrecting the site... I'll help out anyway I can.

2003-04-15 11:23:16 ET

fuchsia, this is why I am in favor of mandatory payment, not voluntary. On a sliding scale as Vasa suggests. Which means we need a bit of administrative machinery.

2003-04-15 11:24:53 ET

There is a difference between a donation and a paid account. With a paid account, people will be required to pay to stay on, and if they don't, CIAO, just like with any service.
Moreover, with paid accounts, people could STILL donate if they want to, but not run the risk of loosing out completely like you are going through now.

2003-04-15 11:26:02 ET

true, i should have rephrased myself maybe, i wanted to say something about how people might now say how they would pay, but when it came time to do so, just back out. then again, maybe those arent the type of people that should be on the new/resurected site.

2003-04-15 11:26:16 ET

What would be great is to do a SK/BME style site, and release the code as open source. That would be my intention. That way, a site could easily move on should the current mainifested management decide to pass it on.

I get my hosting for free, and I've got quite a bit of bandwidth included in that. Very little cost would be involved for maintenance, and none to start it up, at least in my case.

A site like this has some serious hosting requirements, and it can't be run on a $10 a month shared php hosting plan. It would monopolise a single server, and bandwidth would almost a megabit per second, I would imagine.

2003-04-15 11:27:35 ET

yes... but i think people should be allowed without paying just very limited

i mean if we cap their images to one small one (avatar) and cap their personal page customization to colors and fonts and cap their backlogged posts at like 10 they really wouldnt be a bandwidth issue... we have the server space

2003-04-15 11:30:08 ET

I like the idea of a free trial period then you have to pay.

Without SK what is the internet good for. Shopping? Searching? p0rn?

community:
Pronunciation: k&-'myŁ-n&-tE
----a unified body of individuals

I don't want my community to die.

2003-04-15 11:31:52 ET

I'd say do a free trial period, and charge perhaps $10 for 6 months. Not a whole lot of money, but should cover any costs incurred.

2003-04-15 11:32:00 ET

All the other online communities suck. This has been the best one by far. :-(

2003-04-15 11:32:27 ET

I don't mind not having image hosting. I've got my little slice of the internet provided by my ISP for that. and soon, I'll be able to contribute monetarily. I'm not going to go into details, everyone has money problems. But soon mine will be over, and I'll be able to help however I can.

I currently have some extra time every day, too, though I know nothing of programming, I'd volunteer to help in any way possible.

this thread reminds me how community minded we people are. you guys are great.

2003-04-15 11:34:00 ET

sk has offered the sense of community...isnt that what being in a subculture is about? unity and community? i commend everyone who is willing to help. :)
like ive said many times before...i to will do all i can

2003-04-15 11:42:45 ET

A lot of it is in Moxieís hands. The whole operation could be moved over night given the right planning. Having the same set up just as it is now would be great, I donít want some emulation of SK, I want SK. If done right with the right communication all our post could be preserved during the move, nothing would be different, and the beat goes on.

Moxie,
I implore you to help pass on the site as a whole and I thank you for all that you have done.

2003-04-15 11:44:31 ET

mos def

we just need the money or the server space

and the bandwidth

2003-04-15 11:46:23 ET

so now we got a plan so lets act on it

2003-04-15 11:47:15 ET

I don't know moxie and I've never talked to him so I won't presume to know what he's feeling. However, I imagine there are emotional issues involved I'm sure in giving up all that work to hand over to someone else.

Think about it from his perspective. If he were to pass off the site entirely to someone else, he would be giving up control to his work, to his labor. That's not an easy thing to do, especially with so much time and effort invested. The new people would take that site and make it partly their own, it wouldn't be exactly the old SK. That can be hard to do.

If I were to take a site, to have the torch passed to me, I'd want to contribute and make it partly mine as well. Otherwise, why take on the responsiblity?

2003-04-15 11:48:12 ET

:'-(.


i will seriously pay money to keep sk alive.

2003-04-15 11:50:18 ET

I'd totally pitch in whatever I could to get something started as well.

making this a paid site is a good Idea.

if this place shuts down, I've nowhere else to go. my only other journal page is on BME, and that's hardly a community as much as it is a metropolis. doesn't feel as "homey" as SK does.

2003-04-15 11:51:21 ET

yes and no

i think it really wouldnt be hard to keep sk the same
we just need the resources to do it
a lot of us are in it for the community

and why take it on?
for the sake of the whole
to be a complete geek:
"the good of the many outweighs the good of the one; or the few"

2003-04-15 11:57:13 ET

When you take responsiblity, there's an urge to create. I would never take on such responsibility and burden and not want to contribute in some way. SK and all comunities aren't static; they evolve.

Keep the same style of site, keep the same people. But continue to grow and evolve. Maybe it won't be SK, but maybe many of the same people will join up. That all depends on the community itself.

I'm saying, I've got the means and the talent to setup a community much like SK. I would need help doing so. Not financial help, but help with programming.

What I wouldn't want to do is take someone's work and copy it entirely. That would be plagerism. The community itself is a living thing unto it's own, and it wouldn't be plageristic to host them.

2003-04-15 11:59:52 ET

Plagiarism or not, it would be easier, faster, and more efficient. But of course you must ask permission.

2003-04-15 12:02:03 ET

And I have donated to the site before, and will pay for an account.

2003-04-15 12:03:29 ET

well what we can do is have few pictures at first to keep that webspace free for awhile we just need to start with the basics

2003-04-15 12:03:56 ET

i'm totally with u and totally understand

but the thing is i dont know u

very few of us really know each other

we just have this overwhelming sense of kommunity driving us, pushing us on

i think does need to stay as sk maybe not EXACTLY the same a new front end might be nice

but what ur talking about just seems too much

it wouldnt have the same sense of community, becuz yes it is a living organism this community and we've grown accustomed to where we are

this being so can't be plagerism. without the people there is no sk without sk there is no community it's a circle that keeps going

i'm not saying it has to be EXACTLY the same but what we have WORX

it does.

and a lot of people don't want to see it changed that much

2003-04-15 12:05:31 ET

when i go get a job i can put up a small amount of money towards the "holy cause"

2003-04-15 12:07:33 ET

Well, consider the option that it's better to have it changed than to have it gone completely, perhaps?

2003-04-15 12:08:24 ET

well yes

but it i think we can have it the same or damn well close

its not a real big issue there

2003-04-15 12:10:12 ET

I say if we cant get all of the coding, then we should just start with the VERY basics (in other words, a lame boring plain message board) and then as funds and coders/coding and oppurtunities become available then it just gets upgraded, and upgraded until it is back to where it is now.

2003-04-15 12:10:40 ET

Domain name and backend software are important (especially the backend software), but the community ultimately defines itself.

I'm offering the community a new home, internet nomads, if you will.

Maybe moxie will offer up the code and accounts and domain to take over. However, I'm working under the assumption now that he is not and I understand why he wouldn't want to. It's a very difficult thing to do.

2003-04-15 12:10:59 ET

I'll help however I can. I have money and technical knowledge, but not much time.

2003-04-15 12:12:36 ET

Well I hope that m0xie will agree to give out the code to people who prove worthy of taking over the site... But no one knows if that'll happen.

2003-04-15 12:13:16 ET

sweet

i think u have a good idea there shade

subkultures.org is available

2003-04-15 12:17:22 ET

i know that's kind of turning our bax on moxie but i think the whole idea of sk has changed to the point where we should remain the same

if we cant get the same code we should be similar

this model worx yes bme does too fankly i like ours better

i'd just like to see it largely similar yes their are improvements that could be made, yes we could make this thing better

yes if u started some place new u should be able to put ur "stamp" on it

but we're all in this together

we all have a since of ownership

and we all like what we have now

so i mean

we should keep it at least damn similar

thats my thinking anyways

2003-04-15 12:19:20 ET

I hope, if we gets something started, that founders of SK.net would be interested in taking part. if not as admins, then as members.

2003-04-15 12:20:14 ET



Everything builds off of something, nothing is original. Changes to SK will happen if Moxie or someone else is hosting it.

To start a new community with the same ppl would be like burning down the village walking to a new continent and starting again. During the walk no one will know each other, and many ppl will die. Once the spot for a new village is found it has to be built. All this comes because the village founders donít want to live here any longer. There is nothing wrong with the village. Iím sure there is someone willing to walk in giant footsteps laid out before them. But to trash everything solely to say that it is your own is selfish.

2003-04-15 12:20:54 ET

I think few people can really understand what Moxie is going through, you kind of have to have gone through it. I have.

For every person that thanks you for a site like this, the people that complain, the people that call you a nazi, the freeloaders and scammers and spammers, they all weigh much more heavily than the nice people on your soul. It takes 10 thanks yous to make up for one asshole. Combine that, with the fact that it's usually a financially losing prospect. Over time, it can really wear you down.

Giving up your own creating to someone else also isn't easy, especially when you feel unappreciated.

2003-04-15 12:22:05 ET

i appreciate moxie. he is the biggest sweetheart ever. he let me back on this site twice b/c i'm a moron and i really dont want to leave again. :'-(.

2003-04-15 12:22:36 ET

I think the village has a burn-down date already set. That's what I'm planning for.

2003-04-15 12:26:16 ET

well, the way i see it... with all of this rush to help, maybe m0xie will just "take a vacation" from SK... and while the other people get it all situatated and funded etc. m0xie can work to resolve whatever his problem may be, and when he sees fit can resume his status on the site, even though the ownership will have shifted some...
But on the other hand, he could just not do any of that.

2003-04-15 12:27:48 ET

i dont think so

i've run web communities as well

i think its all ur outlook on things

i think yes changes can, should, and will be made

but like alice said, we cant through out what we have accomplished

i know what it is to go through what mox and u have

but for sk

i'd go through it 20 times again

2003-04-15 12:29:14 ET

it all depends on what moxie says .... if he responds at all

i dont know whats happening but i go back to this...

i think something went down

syko wouldnt delete her own account for nothin

2003-04-15 12:31:12 ET

Well she deleted it before actually. Syko has alot of super-personal stuff going on right now and the fact she had a page on here at all is really for the members.. not having sparky around opened up a big void. Then she came back thankfully. It's ok I guess. We all have lives and the internet can cause drama.

2003-04-15 12:50:18 ET

i'll help in any way possible...

2003-04-15 12:54:50 ET

people, keep the posts relevant, we're reaching the maximum here in fast pace,

and belmontbat, how can you help?

ADDENDUM: deleting irrelevant posts, no one take offense please.

2003-04-15 13:00:20 ET

im willing to pay for an account. i really had no idea money was such an issue, if i would have known this i would have donated, bad me. i love this place and would miss it much. keep it alive!!!!!!!!!

2003-04-15 13:17:14 ET

since this thread is almost full, at the request of Total Eclipse,

talk about possible assets can go here

and ideas for what to do with these resources can go Here

2003-04-15 13:17:23 ET

it's taken me 30 minutes to read this thread, and i'm missing buffy right now, and even though i've only been a member for a few days i really like this site and don't want to see it go anywhere but how it is.

I know zip about php, programming, 25% of what techs tell me at work (and i work in a mac lab) but i have some flo i could put up towards a working site.

lemme ask my friends jason and todd of thesite i used to go to before i switched to milk and I will ask them for suggestions. they run beeradvocate and they do it fresh from their own pockets. this could be very useful in terms of ideas toward doing this as inexpensively as possible.

i'm not exactly sure what i could do when the new site takes place (maybe a monitor or something) but i am a fast learner.

another thing we should consider is the legal aspect. even if sk.net were to be placed under 'new management', would we be able to obtain all the same user profiles and such? that's a permission issue i could ask my lawyer about.
and storm, if you want help with mailing list shtuff i will help you. i sent you an email.

i hope this was on-topic...

jonnie

2003-04-15 14:36:13 ET

monetarily I'll make any contribution possible. Maybe I could help to organize some sort of SK funding event (like a group yard sale or something???) I dont have a lot of computer skills but coming up on summer break in three weeks means i will have a fair amount of added free time. Whatever I can do to aid in those reguards is offered up.

2003-04-15 18:51:35 ET

I can't be arsed to read all this right now, if a group of people split to another site/internet location, plz pm me or im me or email me/whatever and let me know. :'C

2003-04-15 19:51:28 ET

May 15th huh?
thats my schools prom...
I feel like bawling all over the place.

But in SK i have come to believe. There are assholes and the kindest of people. Amazing talent and wonderful insights. I don't believe an opportunity like this (or as successful) will arise soon. I do believe in SK and some how it will prevail, I mean it has to right? Vasa's input was just too damn inspiring! I may not have any PHP exp or any server space or any decent amount of money but i would be more than willing to pay membership fees to anyone who decides to help SK off the ropes.

2003-04-15 20:15:12 ET

i don't think anybody's really going to have a heart attack if sk gets changed up a bit.. the point is to save the friendships that we've made on here.. i didn't even know what was going on until i stumbled across a post on someone's page... i think most would agree to save sk even if they have to pay, do without some priveledges, or help out otherwise to keep this place running...

we've got people on here that have been moderators for other sites.. we've got people willing to pitch in some money... we've got people with the technical knowledge to keep this place up and running... we've just got to get the word out there and collectively come up with a plan and keep this thing going..together

2003-04-15 20:17:27 ET

I believe that a good 20% of the people on here are talented enough, that together they can create a place like SK, or very similar to SK.

We need to decide whats going to happen though. A month isnt very much time, if we have to start from scratch.

A yearly fee IS a good idea.

2003-04-15 21:20:52 ET

I have no money, less tech skill, and little time. I'd pay for an account, and I am quite happy to delete messages and host my pix elsewhere. Being a school teacher I've had some practice at moderating and would be happy to help with that if necessary. ;)

2003-04-15 21:48:49 ET

I have money, annual fee's and sign up costs are okay by me, I was un aware of the money issues. But it all seems too late, I guess we see what this site really means to us all when we are losing it, its awful, hopefully something can be worked out, because Sk just wouldn't be the same in any other way, shape or form.

2003-04-15 23:44:46 ET

uh I have the php skillz and whatever I lack I know Joker would get my back as far as helping the only prob I have is money. someone get the space and I can run the techs.

2003-04-16 02:12:41 ET

wow, look at what i miss when im offline for a bit

i've been thinking alot about the whole sk situation today...looks like there's many good ideas being thrown around here...guess we'll see what happens...

i know i, for one, would happily run the site myself if i had the money...

2003-04-16 04:10:36 ET

i'd go for a paid membership. keep sk up and running. livejournal sucks as an option.

i have an account on pitas already, but never bothered to use it... it does seem rather okay...

oh shay!!! this is so sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2003-04-16 04:23:43 ET

A paid membership is a really nice option.

2003-04-16 04:24:44 ET

So...... Has M0x responded?

2003-04-16 05:22:36 ET

my guess is that with all the buzz, an announcement is pending-but keep in mind this may not work due to overtaxing. Now, I am not against keeping SK up in any way. I'm overdue for a donation myself and will pony up whatever i can spare. I am only speaking as someone working two jobs, taking graduate courses, and attempting to launch creative projects (which are going to be pushed back, it seems). Burnout is as easy to get as a cold and it isn't fun.

2003-04-16 06:04:27 ET

Fantastic; check out m0xie's update....there is some hope :)

2003-04-16 06:08:45 ET

read it-i'm glad to hear that moderation did not cause nasty stress. however-still think the format should be less image oriented for bandwith purposes-and that we should shell out at least 10 bucks a pop (which adds up if we all do it).

2003-04-16 07:49:10 ET

ya that has been the general concesus

i'm not going to kill planning with the guys though we need a plan in place if something is to happen to sk

this is certain

2003-04-16 07:54:46 ET

Not to be rude but long long posts take up lots of bandwidth too.. just a comment. O.o

2003-04-16 07:58:00 ET

no ur comment is appreciated

and thats why i'm launching a BBS to talk about this and other sk related matters.

even with the announcement i'm still gonna launch it

2003-04-16 09:27:58 ET

i'm glad you are it's helping me sleep at night. a back-up plan is always nesessary.

2003-04-16 16:05:20 ET

I haven't read all of this yet, but I would just like to mention that because this site is a COMMUNITY site, then technically everyone should be moderating eachother.

But alas, too many people were afraid to contact others about personal issues, and kept running to us.

Please, if you see someone using copyrighted images, or talking about illegal activities, please drop them a PM.

2003-04-18 04:23:02 ET

I updated.

And do checkout Cavefish's page, too.

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