turboskanker 2021-03-22 21:09:23 ET this article encompasses approximately half of the reasons i left the god damn gOtH / iNdUsTrIaL scene in my 20s, and why even as a "kinky" individual, i have all but zero interest in the "fetish scene" either: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2021-03-21/cloak-and-dagger-goth-nightclub-closed-sexual-misconduct-claims

chamber 2021-03-22 22:40:04 ET so much of this bothers me. i miss dancing in a public place to music i love with other like minded people... but i never wanted to be in a 'scene' there are far too many messed up people trying to mess with other people & i, like you, got sick of it. i know that nostalgia is a liar, but i do miss just dancing to music i love in a public place with like minded people. i did enjoy some zoom dance parties like 'batcave' during lockdown. this may not be relevant to your point, but i felt like sharing. also, hello btw.

turboskanker 2021-03-23 00:07:38 ET i appreciate your sharing very much. it's nice to hear from others who get it and walked a similar path. it's been my experience, since leaving that whole thing, that there are lots of great clubs that play excellent music outside of that or any "scene" that simply just cater to die-hard music lovers without all the dysfunction - this is where i ventured after i left, along with several other DJs and musicians i've known over the years, and honestly many of the progenitors of techno/industrial/whatever themselves before me. that said, after 2020 i definitely miss dancing and DJing both. i hope we can get back to these things in some degree at some point this year. guess we'll see how much longer i have to wait... lemme know if you ever feel inclined to visit SF - would be nice to catch up, and there's a lovely hotel by the ocean i always recommend to friends.

chamber 2021-03-23 00:11:44 ET thanks bud, i've been thinking about getting 'away' but i have no idea where i want to go, that i can go to. London, HK, etc is out for a while. i'll consider SF over the next few weeks.

KiltedLunatic 2021-03-23 14:01:35 ET I haven't been in a club in ages, but I can recall one of the bouncers literally hurling an asshole in to the parking lot for groping a woman in the goth club. He punctuated it with a few swift follow up kicks to make sure it was clear. I'm sad that this is not the norm. It needs to be. I miss dancing in clubs as well. Hugely. And I skipped out on the fetish scene after a series of bullshit "I'm more hardcore than you watch this" one-upsmanship that ended with some people getting hurt. The last thing I needed was to get caught up in some investigation because someone was dead.

chamber 2021-03-23 22:23:25 ET i hear that! i won't go into details but i found a body in a club toilet years ago... that sort of thing tends to change your overall perspectives.

turboskanker 2021-03-24 12:07:36 ET it's been my experience that scenes and cliques largely just exist to shield and enable dysfunction, whether overtly apparent or not. this is also a reason, for a while, why i personally had a real love-hate relationship with a site called "subkultures" and straight-up deleted my account here for a while. though i think it's obvious nowadays that SK has pretty much outgrown its initial concept, even as much as it's stayed the same design-wise. but i digress. after getting sick of all the bullshit i'd experienced in multiple cities, not to mention feeling tediously pigeonholed as a creative type, DJ, and lover of music (not just <insert arbitrary and self-deluded pseudo-genre label separating what i should and shouldn't listen to> music), i had a real reckoning with myself and a realization of "you know what? this is all fucking stupid. i'm just as much a part of the broader human race as anyone else is, not some self-marginalizing group of fucks who wants to hide with their problems in the corner forever while blaming everyone else." hopefully since that initial realization i've gotten more gracious towards everyone - at least i try to be - but still, seeing an article like this one reminds me that much of my initial pissed-offedness when i left scenes behind was, for better or worse, 100% justified. these people need to get therapy and a better life. granted, while for lower-income folk in this country that's much harder to do than it should be, all these celebrity / corp-goths like the ones that hang out at places like C&D have zero excuse.

Tala Marie 2021-03-25 11:11:26 ET The dilution of the sex worker industry to 'non-professionals' is really effing painful to watch too. I was in a thread the other day where the OP was complaining that after not responding to a client, the client went to a friend of hers, and how that was a deep violation, etc. I'm like 'Do you think McDonalds gets mad if someone gets Taco Bell because they're closed? No. Figure out what sort of special you're going to run, and upsell him if you want him back" or something like that, and she proceeded to tell me I don't understand the business. No, I understand the business just fine. You just feel like your customer is cheating on you. It sounds like YOU don't understand the business

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